Rewiring Trauma: NLP, Huna, And A Wildland Firefighter’s Path

What happens when a wildland firefighter, pushed to the edge by grief and burnout, discovers that changing the mind can change the body? We sit down with visionary healer and entrepreneur Thomas Wurm to unpack a life that veered from helicopter calls and heat lines into a precise, lineage-backed approach to deep healing. His story begins with a near-death moment at fifteen and accelerates through meditation, a destabilizing kundalini surge, and the unexpected clarity of NLP and mental and emotional release—where fear lifted and breath finally returned.

Thomas breaks down a clear framework: If beliefs and emotions muddy the lens, the body carries the cost. We explore how Huna and ho‘oponopono fit alongside hypnosis and timeline work, drawing on elders’ teachings to create structure, safety, and depth. You’ll hear what an eight-hour breakthrough session looks like—from mapping the mechanics of a problem to releasing root emotions and installing a detailed future—and why integration isn’t optional. Think six to twelve weeks of focused learning, boundaries, environment shifts, and a hypnotic “install” that helps the unconscious carry your new plan forward.

The conversation lands in the real world with case studies: a stubborn back pain that eased after cutting cords to a beloved house, clients experiencing detox-like changes as physiology updates, and sensitive people mislabeled as disordered who, with guidance, transform overwhelm into clear gifts. We talk about plant medicines with respect for lineage and safety, and we underline a theme that powers everything here: cause over effect. You are in charge of your mind, therefore your reality—and when you clean the channel, the body follows.

If you’re ready to move beyond “trying everything” and into precise, mind-first healing with grounded tools and ethical lineage, this episode offers a map. Subscribe for more conversations on mind, body, and spirit, share this with someone who needs hope with a plan, and leave a review to help others find the show. What belief are you ready to retire today?

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Transcript

Meet Thomas: Firefighter To Healer

Venessa 0:17

Welcome to the next episode of Squats and Seances. Today we are chatting with Thomas Horme. Thomas is a visionary healer and entrepreneur with a unique background that blends 15 years of wildlife fire service with his expertise in alternative healing. As the founder of Mountain Mind Tricks, he has dedicated his life to empowering others on their healing journeys. Thomas is a master practitioner in NLP, hypnosis, and mental and emotional release, as well as certified in Reiki and Ancient Hawaiian Healing Arts. Welcome, Thomas.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I am I'm just I'm so happy to be here with you and your audience.

Venessa 1:08

Oh, I'm very excited to chat today. A little bit more I was gonna share here at Mountain Mind Tricks. It says that you provide breakthrough sessions and sacred energy healing with integration to help clients heal their mind, body, and spirit. He believes that everyone possesses the natural ability to heal from anything. And his holistic approach releases the root cause in the mind so the body can heal. I'm very excited to talk about that today. Often in these circles, I'm hearing a lot of the opposite, which is energy trauma stored in the body, addressing the body, and then the mind can function. So I really am curious to talk today about the reverse of that. Before we get into all of the good juicy parts, the first question that I ask every new guest on the podcast is what does the word gray mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah, actually, I kind of love that word because, you know, as a wildland firefighter for so long, I kind of came from the grit, you know, sleeping in the dirt and eating

Near-Death And A Sudden Awakening

SPEAKER_00 2:15

MREs and being out in the wilderness for two weeks at a time. You know, you just uh to me, it's that um actually it's kind of the art of suffering and learning to find your power in that deep place. Yeah.

Venessa 2:31

The art of suffering. I love asking guests this question because the answers are all over the spectrum. So many different things to different people. All right, let's get into this. Let's talk about you, your background. I want to go back to your beginning, the five whys, if you will, when, where, why, who, what, your journey to self-actionization. Where did that really begin? I was like you have a very interesting crossover, civil service, and now another type of service, but in a completely different arena. So, can you tell us a little bit of your backstory?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I I think we we gotta go back to uh when I was about 15 and maybe even a little bit farther back than that, is you know, as a as a young man, preteen, teenage years, I was really an angry person. Like I was hanging out with the wrong crowds, and and what I'll say is it it led me into a near-death experience when I was about 15. And I never really thought it was until I started researching like Raymond Moody's work and like hearing other people's cases. But my experience was, you know, I was a very trebled teen. And during this near-death experience, I just went into this darkness, this blackness, like this nothingness. And there was so much peace that, you know, I really thought I died, but I wasn't really sure it was happening to me. And so the thing that really convinced me later is that I was, you know, failing out of high school. I was like hanging out with all the wrong crowds. I was in a just a really dark place. And then overnight I was obsessive about like what just happened to me. And I started getting into meditation. And I never read a book for school, but then I was reading like two or three books a week on Buddhism, on Taoism, on meditation, on like all this crazy stuff, right? And I started going to Kung Fu and Tai Chi, and like I started getting 4.0s. Literally, all of this happened overnight, basically. And so by the time I graduated high school, you know, I I decided to go into wildland firefighting with the Forest Service. And so I think a lot of that opening kind of fell asleep again. And so as I went through my fire career, you know, I went through a lot of, you know, I traveled to every western state. I fought fire just about everywhere, um, around houses in the middle of the mountains, like flying in helicopters, you know, you name it, I've probably done it in fire. And so I learned so much. And as we kind of, I would just say there was a lot of trauma and learning, let's just put it that way, right? And we can definitely go deeper into that. And

Grief, Collapse, And Kundalini Shock

SPEAKER_00 5:10

around 2015, my like best friend, supervisor, person that was really close to me passed away suddenly. And uh he was around 40 years old and passed away from a sudden heart attack, which unfortunately this is in the fire service very common.

Venessa 5:28

Interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

And so I remember when I heard the news, like I literally collapsed to the ground, like it crushed me. And so, you know, the next six months after that, there was, I wasn't really sure, you know, I was a tough fire guy, right? Like there was no processing. I just started drinking, you know what I mean? And it just I really spiraled. And about six months to a year later, my body was torn apart from all the drinking, like my mind, I was just all of a sudden, this grief had pulled up all of my baggage to the surface, and I was in a very bad place, very dark space. And during this time, I kind of went back to that like 15-year-old Thomas, like, well, I don't really know what to do besides meditate, right? So I started doing some meditations and and during uh during this time, I was just I was really in a dark place. And so the I was in this deep meditation and I asked out loud, like, I didn't really know what I was doing. I just said, Universe, will you open my third eye? Right? I didn't really know what I was saying. And then as a lot of people describe, I'm sure you've heard on your show before, it was like as if I stepped into a wind tunnel and I was just absolutely just shot out of my body. Yeah. And so I had an out-of-body experience that you know we can go deeper into. When I came back into my body, everything was different. I was seeing energy. I had all of these, my body was even worse. I mean, it felt like God electrocuted me basically.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

So now I'm like pretty convinced I'm dying. Like that's the only thing I, you know, like I'm dead. Like I don't know, I don't know where else to go from here, you know? Right. So my journey of healing, I I didn't really know what to do at this point. I'm a singing energy, I'm hearing voice, like just losing your mind.

Venessa 7:15

Probably not hearing you were losing your mind.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

100%, right? So I knew like, well, if I go to a Western doctor, I'm kind of, I'm not, that's not gonna go well. So I tried acupuncture. That was like my first step in. And when the needles went to my body, it was like my body was shaking for like an hour. It was like, you know, the acupuncture was like, oh, there's so much trauma. It's just like wind in your body, right? So that was kind of step one. And as I worked with this acupuncturist I met, he really helped me. And he also did a lot of shamanic work and hypnosis with me. And so he, for about a year, he really helped my kundalini experience, the out-of-body experience, settle into my body. And then he introduced me to NLP, the neurolinguistic programming. And so I went to training and

First Steps: Acupuncture To NLP

SPEAKER_00 8:00

you know, just it just kind of snowballed into all these modalities that I'm doing now. And what I can say is when I experienced mental emotion release technique for the first time, this kind of flagship NLP release of you know, major emotions, it changed my life immediately. I mean, instantaneously, I felt a huge shift in my body. I felt, oh my God, all the fear is gone. Oh my God, I can breathe again, right? So that's I would say that's where like my huge transformations really started happening is with the NLP. And as I progressed down that path, you know, I stepped into more of the Huna energy healing, the Hawaiian energy healing arts. And, you know, because as the more I released, like so many more of my gifts came online, you know, and the deeper I went to the unconscious um healing, wow, all my gifts really came online. So now, you know, I'm I don't know, I have all the clairvoyance, right? They're the the sight, the hearing, all of them, all the clairs. Yeah. Uh, and that was hard to integrate, right? There's just there's a there's a lot of layers there. So I'm happy to go deeper anywhere you want to.

Venessa 9:05

Oh, thank you for sharing. That's a really powerful backstory, and so many things that came up that I want to ask about. Yeah, the first one is the physiologic component for firefighters. And it is it wildland firefighters in in particular or any firefighter prone to cardiovascular events like atherosclerosis, heart attacks, strokes, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah, I I'm not too sure on the city side. I haven't like done the research, but on the wildland side, it uh to be really clear for folks, it they're absolutely totally different, right? We're not doing car accidents, we're not doing EMT stuff on a regular basis. We're getting flown into the wilderness for 10 days or boated in somewhere, right? Um, and so the thing that I think most people don't understand is that a wildland firefighter basically, like when you're on the line, it's well, they've done a lot of research, like people swallowing sensors and measuring all like the heat index of your body and like your metabolism, all these things. So some of that research has shown that basically the firefighters are riding a tour to France every day.

Venessa 10:16

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

And so that's what I was thinking. So there's there's the physiological of overtraining endurance, there's part of that. There's also the tox toxin, the heavy metals accumulate in the heart on top of the stress. So there's just like there's a whole bunch of stuff on top of, we'll just say it being a government employee is just spiritual abuse. It's it's the employer does so much to the fire folks. And there's a whole if you want to learn more, you know, grassroots wildland firefighters is super important. Organization. So there's so many aspects to it, but yeah, it's super common. You know, it's suicide, heart attack, way more common than the stuff in the field, unfortunately.

Venessa 10:55

I'll make sure to include a link for the reference that people, if they want to go and do more research about how to support or what can be done to help these individuals, that would be great. Can you say the name of it one more time? Grassroots.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah, so so there's two there's grassroots uh wildland firefighters. They're like more congressional kind of laws stuff. And then um Wildland Firefighter Foundation is actually one of the best ways to support because they they really help people that have gotten injured, fatalities and the families. Like they do so much. I could talk an hour about that. So yeah, I'll I'll send those to you.

Venessa 11:29

Thank you.

Physiology And Risks In Wildland Firefighting

Venessa 11:30

At what point after your colleague passed and you had this experience through meditation, which I am just gonna say is the biggest common thread throughout every conversation I have ever had in this podcast? Meditation, meditation. No matter where your background, no matter what you were going through, that is like the gateway for people that are seeking and finding peace and happiness with the present moment. So I'm so stoked that you mentioned that. At what point did you decide I'm done with this Wildland firefighter gig? And I'm just gonna go into helping other people heal in the way that worked for you.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, you know what's so funny. You're gonna laugh at this, is after my Kundalini experience and all of this stuff that was going on, like I was hiding this even from my wife, from my co-workers, and I actually stayed in for another five years.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

So as I was healing, I actually about maybe about three years later, I started. Let me rewind a little bit. My first experience with midst emotion release, like when I released fear, it was as if God's voice came through as like, you're gonna do this, other people. I was like, uh-oh. Right? Are you sure?

Venessa 12:44

I know what you're talking about. That was when I got the message that I'm gonna do a podcast. And I thought I don't, I don't think you have the right person.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

So that was about like 20 2018, 19. So then I started to really like build my business and and on the side, and I would say, as things progressed, like my gifts just started opening up. So I started having these experiences on fires where it's like, I'm yeah, we're just gonna go all the way. We're gonna go all the way in that like my consciousness would like drop into the ground, into the mycelium, and I could talk to the whole forest and like, hey, can you talk? Go, can I talk to the tree that's like way up in the mountains and look at this fire that's like a mile away from me? And I would get all this intel from the trees, or put my consciousness into a like a hawk and like look at different perspectives or speak to the fire, right? So I started having these like shamanic elemental experiences, like, I'm not a good firefighter anymore. Right. So uh it I would say fascinating, yeah. So it really, my gifts started coming online so much. And for me, I'll tell you the moment when I was like, I'm done. I I gotta be done with this, is that we were we got a fire call and I was on a helicopter crew at the time. And so basically, you have two minutes to get suited up and in the ship. You're like getting all your stuff on and running into the helicopter. So I remember shutting the door and like rotors are turning, and we're just about to lift off, and I was just like, I hope this thing crashes. That was my thought. And I was like, because I just want I just didn't know what to do. I just I was super suicidal. I just want to get

Decision Point: Leaving The Fireline

SPEAKER_00 14:20

out of this. Like I had been growing and healing, but that's just where I was like, I gotta get out of this fake. I can't do this anymore. And so at that moment, I was like, I was learning how powerful my thoughts were, and I was just like, I cannot be doing this to my brothers and sisters, I can't be thinking like this out here because that's super dangerous. So yeah, I would say to me, that was a big turning point of like, I need to get out.

Venessa 14:43

Thank you for sharing all of that. Amazing. What sort of individuals do you work with? And is there a specific Clangel that you focus on? I know you mentioned on the website as well, HUNA energy. And correct me if I'm wrong because I am speaking with very little experience. Is that more of like the masculine energy, or does that apply to everybody?

SPEAKER_00 15:05

I was just yeah, yeah. So I'll start with kind of uh uh I have worked with a lot of first responders and firefighters for a long time, and I've mostly worked with women for some reason. That's just the way it's been. And you know, for me, I I love to work with men that are suffering in silence because that's who I was, you know, and so I'm really open to anybody. And and the thing is, is that people people that come to me usually have like, you know, I've been going to the doctors, I've been going to therapy, I've been doing this for like five years, and like nothing's working. And we're gonna get into like kind of this reverse model that you talked about, like we're starting with the mind, right? And so what I'll say about the Huna stuff is is that Huna is it means secret, okay? So, but if we actually go a deeper layer deeper, because the Hawaiian language is what I would say is there's like one word could have like five different meanings depending on what maybe layer you're talking about. So huna is kind of the first layer, but below that is ho'umanaloa, which is to make mana or like to make energy expand, right? So it's qigong energy work, like it's really energy work. It is coming from a very strong lineage from the big island, and actually there's 121 generations that we're the school I'm part of is connected to. So it's like Reiki, but there's way more lineage and protocol and chanting, and like we go a lot deeper than Reiki can.

Venessa 16:41

It's and you know, Reiki has like five symbols and we have 36, so there's just a lot more depth to Huna, but I would say the best way to describe it is like Hawaiian Reiki in a way, and it applies to everyone then, so not no gender specificity, which honestly in today's age is a silly question, anyways. Yeah, like if you're in energy, everything is fluid, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

That's right. That's right.

Venessa 17:06

Interesting. Did you go to the big island to study this?

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yeah, I go there once or twice a year generally to um go back to um, you know, let's just call it Hawaiian Hogwarts, because that's what it is.

Venessa 17:16

So stay there and and study and work with do you have mentors over there that that oversees you?

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Like a teacher as a lineage holder. And so the the HUNA LINK, it's so it's like a two-week workshop twice a year, basically. And so there's about 200 to 150 people in the school, and so yeah, we we have um different levels, like there's four different levels, and so you know, we we

What Huna Really Is

SPEAKER_00 17:45

have each time you go, there's something different. Like after level four, you just keep going, and then we're just gonna add in new teachers or bring in people in that teach astrology or um, you know, tarot, or like start adding things to the huna's work. Uh and so yeah, we have like two weeks in workshop, but we also go to sacred sites on the island and connect with the land. And we do hula, like traditional kahiko. So this is like ancient hula. We do a lot of ancient chanting, and so it's very we bring in the culture as much as possible. You know, it's like we were keeping the culture alive, and you know, that was part of the ask of the elders that gave permission for this school to be around is for to keep these teachings in their what they wanted more than anything, their vision for the elders was like we want this energy to spread out throughout the world, right? We want it to spread.

Venessa 18:36

What are the pre-qualifications? Do you need to have a direct connection in lineage?

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Um roots, no, not at all.

Venessa 18:44

Can anybody do it?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Absolutely. Anyone, yeah, anybody, yeah. And it really comes to like a lot of people come through the NLP kind of doorway. That's how I found out about it. Because I was doing breakthrough sessions with people, and we'll talk about that. Yeah. And I just all this energy stuff was happening. You start working with the unconscious mind, it's like, whoa, what is going on here?

Venessa 19:05

Yes, and like you said, Western medicine does not support that. And if you if you talk about it, many times I feel like that's an automatic referral to psychiatry, right? And it's no, like science is showing this connection, energy is real. Yeah, we can use science to show that there are these subatomic particles that are connected to everything and we can't see them. That doesn't mean it's not real, right? You can feel it, you can feel energy. Those of us that have done the work to get the clarity can see it, can hear it. So that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah, yeah. And so the Huno is really very focused on higher self and like, you know, we would call it alma kua, but it's really like your higher self, right? And so maybe even Holy Spirit, very similar. So it's like we pull in or call in the higher self through chanting, and then we do something called higher self therapy, where we actually ask the unconscious mind to kind of light up all the baggage, if it's anger or fear, or events, like really connecting with the mind, body, spirit, like lighting it all up, and then having the higher self basically

Training On The Big Island

SPEAKER_00 20:10

pull all that out and install something new. And for me, you know, a lot of my teachers are doctors in psychology, they're psychiatrists, you know, and they're like higher self-therapy works every time on even the wildest stuff. It's like that's what I've seen in my practice. And we're so blessed to have traditional hooponopono and higher self-therapy and and all of these tools that, you know, I guess just to just to just make sure I want to make sure I highlight just and honor the lineage here, is like the way that it would be described as, you know, in ancient times, you could be like a kahuna of canoe building, you could be a kahuna of like cooking, or like there's a kahuna of everything in this specific school, is like basically the teachers or like kahunas of psychology. So it's it's ancient psychology, right? And so when the colonizers came to Hawaii originally, there wasn't disease. There was no like psychological issues, people because they constantly did higher self-therapy, they constantly did ho, you know, hooponapono, like it's just a totally different way of looking at baggage and like transforming our negative emotions into energy.

Venessa 21:21

I would love to get a link for that school as well. Yeah for people that wanted to do more research on it. Then to bring in as well the NLP and the mental and emotional release. You talked that sometimes those go together, or did one preclude the other? I wasn't sure. Maybe you could give some background there. Yeah, and how you got introduced and what that looks like when you're working with someone.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yeah, let's just, I think let's just talk about a breakthrough session because I think that's that will really help marry everything together. Let's do it. And so a breakthrough is is an eight hour session, okay? And typically break it up into like four, four hours one day, four hours the next day, depending. When the person's looking for. And so the NLP comes in, you know, let's just break it down. Neurolinguistic programming. The neuro is like our mind, our neurology, our senses, all these things. Linguistics is our language. And those two words, we're talking about how our words create pictures in our mind, and how those pictures really create our state of being, our physiology. So from an NLP perspective, the picture in your mind is worth a million hormones and chemical markers and all those things, as if your brain is decoding pictures in your mind into biochemistry. So when we shift the pictures, we're shifting mind, body, spirit in so many different ways. So, so from a breakthrough session

Higher Self Therapy And Ho‘oponopono

SPEAKER_00 22:45

or we're looking at how their problem works. So that's more of an NLP perspective, right? Like we're gonna do a detailed personal history, about four hours of talking, of talking through what's going on and looking at the programming. So neurolinguistic programming. What are your programs that you're running? What are the like how does your anxiety work? And no, step by step, how does it start? How does it get triggered? How do you run through it in your mind? What are the pictures? What are your beliefs? What are the emotions? Where did it come from? Like, so we spend this three or four hours using, you know, basically NLP style questioning to come to a greater problem, the one core wound that's like connected to this whole area of life. And here's the greatest hits. I'm not good enough, I'm unlovable, those kinds of things. The thing is that this process is the detailed personal history, the idea is that we're lighting up all of the neurology connected, all the stories, the events, the emotions, the beliefs, right? And then the next aspect of the breakthrough session. So this is where you know we've done a lot of NLP mental work. Now, the next step is really letting all of that go, is release work. So we could use NLP techniques, which are a lot more mental, like parts integrations, like mental emotion release, which you could look at as like timeline therapy. Uh, so we're gonna spend a couple hours, two or three hours just doing release work, pretty trance work, right? And then towards the end, it's all about going into the future and focusing on what you want and clearing anything out of the future timeline and start installing literally pictures in the future timeline to rewire from a quantum perspective your timeline. You start dropping stuff from an NLP perspective. And then at that point, now it's action and focus. And that person's just got to go out there and take action and focus and learn new things. And so where the HUNA comes in is that release section where we're releasing things, we could do mental emotion release, which is super mental, or we could do higher self-therapy, which is energetic. And it's uh they're really interchangeable. And I would say we're gonna do hope, Punapono, no matter what. We gotta work on forgiveness, right? And we have other HUNA techniques for parts integrations. It's just, you know, I always ask clients, like, do you want kind of like a therapeutic experience or do you want a ceremony? Because we can go flee, I can go all the way out. I can I'm gonna dress like a shaman, I'll do that. I don't care. Or I can be super scientific and very grounded. And it's just how do you want me to show up? Because it's to me, it's all the same thing.

Venessa 25:20

Interesting. So spiritual or secular, so that way you can appeal to everyone. I think everyone can benefit from this kind of work. What I'm hearing below the surface is

Inside An Eight-Hour Breakthrough Session

Venessa 25:30

our medical providers, like our doctors and people on the front line that are very Western medicine science-based, could really benefit from this kind of work as a way to tie in what they're experiencing in hospitals or in clinics or seeing patients with the intangible side, the compassion fatigue, those default mode networks that are running in the background. Like I have imposter syndrome or I have anxiety, I'm not doing enough to help these people. Are you doing this only in person, or do you offer Zoom like virtual meetings as well? What's your preferred model?

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Yeah, both actually, it's all the same. And it's interesting because the Zoom is so like fifth element or transi or like ether, right? So it's really to me, there's no difference. Um, you know, in person is great, but over Zoom, I do a lot of virtual sessions. And and I just want to reflect on what you were talking about is there's a lot of people in my crowd in in this world, this school that I'm in, a lot of people are medical doctors, a lot of people are psychiatrists. And uh, you know, I'm not gonna necessarily work with cancer. That's I'm not gonna go there. But these people that are medical doctors, they will. And yeah, using these tools along with other therapy, you know, physical and whichever way the person wants to go, like there's some very powerful work being done from a medical perspective on this stuff. And and I'll just share one story here where I had a client come to me with like extreme back pain. You know, she's like, you know, it's been like six months, almost a year. I literally it's getting to the point where I can't really walk, like the corsan shots aren't working, the doctors don't know what's wrong with me. There's nothing on the scans. Like, okay, well, let's let's get into the energy, let's see. And as I talked to her more, it came out that she, when this first started, she was moving and she kind of tweaked her back a little bit, but she was moving from this house that she like loved, like she was in love with this house. And so it came to me, I just intuitive hit, like, oh, we need to cut the cords to the house and do some how ponopono and forgiveness. Like you didn't really talk to the house and let it know like why you were leaving, like you were invested in this relationship. So we did this forgiveness process where we we basically just asked for forgiveness both ways. We did it with the house, which is a little different, you know. Usually it's people or loved ones, or so we cut the cords to the house with this process, and within a couple weeks, she's walking again. All of her pain is gone. She's like, I going to the chiropractory less, I'm doing like and within a couple months, she's like, it's just gone. Like, oh my God. And I've seen that with Hoponapono more than once, where it's this resentment that we're holding on to, it's that cord that we're connected to somebody to that event. And so this is how a lot of times, like these how these energetic chords or resentments or negative emotions impact our body, it's like an internal stress. Yeah, yeah.

Venessa 28:30

Would this be an example of how the unconscious mind is at play? Or do you feel that this is more less unconscious mind, more energetic? How would you delineate? Yeah, I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Yeah, so so typically, uh I think this is the best way I like to explain it is that we have three minds and four bodies, would be this is like a Huna perspective. So, and so different cultures are going to look at it differently. But the three minds would be our conscious mind, our unconscious, and our higher self,

Mind Before Body: Releasing At The Root

SPEAKER_00 29:00

or no, Jung would call it the collective unconscious. So the idea is that our conscious mind speaks to our unconscious, and then our unconscious mind speaks to our higher self. And that there's this cord from unconscious mind to higher self that it gets really muddy with all of these deep beliefs from you know, from whatever, you know, from school, from church, from life, right? We have all these beliefs that are accumulating in the unconscious mind. And as we clear limiting beliefs and negative emotions, this cord to higher self, this connection gets clearer and clearer. We become more of a clear channel. And so this allows, you know, our life force energy to come into the body because this is just my perspective. I haven't heard a ton of people talk about it necessarily, but I think the body and the unconscious mind are the same. That's just what I've seen with people. I really think it's it's one and the same, and that there's this idea of mind, body, energy connection that it's all actually one thing.

Venessa 30:00

You know, no one has mentioned that, but when you said it, I'm thinking, yes, autonomic nervous system, our subconscious mind and our body are completely working as one versus our conscious mind and the prefrontal cortex, what we're thinking and our reasoning and our planning versus the systems that are just constantly running in the background.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Yeah.

Venessa 30:20

Interesting. I think I completely agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Yeah. And so our four bodies is like our spiritual, mental, emotional, physical. And of course, every culture is gonna have a different take on that. But basically, you know, spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, it's this trickle-down effect. And the best way I think about it is, you know, like the pink Dark Side of the Moon, Pink Floyd album, where it's like this light going through this prism and this like this rainbow coming out the other side, right? To me, we're connected to spiritual energy and then it's coming through the mental and emotional bodies, and it's supposed to show up as a rainbow in our body, or our organs from a Chinese perspective, or our chakras from an Indian perspective. Okay. The thing is that those mental and emotional blocks, they they kind of blur up the lens. The light isn't showing up the best way possible. So this is what we call from an NLP perspective or Huna perspective, is like this trickle-down effect where the energy just isn't coming down to the body properly. Oh, in that, you know, I would come at from like a Bruce Lipton idea in epigenetics where like 95, 99% of things is stress-related, and then it's it all starts in the mind, but the mind is so powerful, it's gonna create this thing in the body. And so we have to deal with that, you know. So it's not that the spiritual energy is gonna just overcome everything in the body, it's that we need to just clear the channel so you can heal. And then, you know, are you gonna go a natural pathic route? Are you gonna do what are you gonna do from a physical level? And oftentimes I feel like the biggest thing is like changing your environment and lifestyle, like holistic wellness is just you get the body in a state that it wants to heal, and you get the person into an environment that is helpful for them, they're gonna make all the changes very quickly

Remote Work, Medical Integration, Case Studies

SPEAKER_00 32:10

on top of other things. Yeah. Does that make sense? Does that answer your question?

Venessa 32:14

It does. I had never thought of that connection with the body and the subconscious mind having done a lot of this sort of work on themselves and the body.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

What's so interesting is what I've seen so many times as we do this, like higher self-therapy or mental emotion release breakthrough session, right? Is that like I've seen somebody have a detox rash almost immediately. That's happened before. And these people, a lot of times, not a lot of times, but there's times when, especially if we work on something physical, like for instance, let's see, like, you know, somebody like specifically working with like candida. Candida actually, from a mental emotional perspective, is actually having intercourse when you really don't want to, like over and over again, not like in a marriage, right? And so there's a lot of baggage with that. And so when we release that baggage, the candida can actually clear, but you need to do all the protocols to help that. And so the body may actually go through a pretty strong healing process or detox, and like your body's gonna go through your unconscious mind just changed, which means your body just changed. So now there's like this cellular upgrade that's happening. And I'm sure you've had other guests talk about that. We're like, yeah, you might have like these, I don't know, people call it a million different things, but you know, your body's gonna go through a process.

Venessa 33:29

Yeah, I've heard it described, I've experienced it. Some people describe it like a flu or like this, like the worst hangover of their life. You just feel purged and exhausted, but then yeah, you build back from that. So you're doing all of this work on the subconscious mind with somebody in one of these breakthrough sessions. They may or may not have an immediate response. What does the timeline look following? What is the integration? I think is what I'm asking about. The integration period following one of these breakthrough sessions. Could you describe that?

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Yeah, I would say one of my gifts, I would say uh God gave me this gift is that people have mystical experiences with me pretty commonly. And so they have a message from God or Jesus or something happens, or like I became the light. I was like, Yeah, I know.

Venessa 34:16

Um I get fine.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah, right. So, anyway, so people have these mystical experiences, and so I would say the integration process is actually very similar to like plant medicine and those kinds of things, where the brain goes in, or actually the whole body is gonna go into this like neurogenesis. And so uh I always, you know, I always tell people like, okay, the next six to 12 weeks, like you want to be reading books, you want to be like watching great podcasts, you want to just download all this great material, right? And top of taking action, focus. And what I mean by that, there's a very specific process called an avatar aim smart goal document, where you're writing about maybe like your future self in

Three Minds, Four Bodies Framework

SPEAKER_00 35:00

about five to seven years. Like, what does that look like spiritually? What does that look like mentally, emotionally, physically, but getting really detailed, getting the language really, really clear. And then your aim, which is kind of like this is I'm pointing my arrow at this is what I'm doing, and then some SMART goals that are like, hey, I'm gonna knock this out. Like, here's my six month kind of phase, here's my year. So a very clear, big picture, all the way down to very specific. What are you gonna do? And how are you gonna do it? Uh, and then we actually that make takes some time to write it all out and get it nice and perfect. And at that point, we're actually gonna do a hypnosis to basically install all of that stuff in the unconscious mind. So it just kind of happens naturally for the person, and we drop it to the future timeline. And the integration, you know, a lot of times it comes down to environment and setting boundaries, like those things. Sometimes people are like, I gotta cut this person on my life. I've got to some I do give people a lot of homework, and sometimes I'll be very honest. Sometimes the homework is really gritty. You're like, oh, you're gonna have to leave your job. For you to like truly heal from this, you're gonna have to do this thing. That's like that. That's just what it is. So the integration is that doesn't show up very often, but I've seen that before. Like, you're gonna have to get out of this thing. So, environment boundaries in holistic wellness and energy, like go out in nature, get in the elements, find peace, come into your heart, meditation, all that holistic wellness coaching that just I have my back pocket.

Venessa 36:30

So interesting. I appreciate that you share that example of leaving the job or making radical changes in the environment. A couple of things. I did a whole podcast episode in season one about predictive processing, which is exactly what you're describing, how your perception of your reality becomes your reality. So, what what yours thinking is happening is really all that matters when everything's said and done. We don't have to be victims of our thoughts. We definitely can influence what we choose to believe or not believe. Setting that subconscious mind in the right space. And with that means we pick up parts of our environment and the people closest to us, and there's constant energy exchange.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Yeah.

Venessa 37:14

And if it's not a nurturing, safe environment, and safe can mean many different things to different people, then you're not gonna reach those goals that you set for yourself. So I really appreciate that you will say that to somebody like, hey, you need to do this. Like, this is gonna be hard work.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Venessa 37:31

But why would you waste your time, right? Being anything but authentic. You're not gonna sugarcoat it for people.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Yeah, it's uh, you know, that's to me, I think the boundaries, like especially for men, like setting boundaries with their partners or with other like women in their life is so hard because as I'm I think a lot of men tend to freeze and be like, I'm just gonna go her way to like be, you know, make it easy, right? I'm just gonna make it easy right now. And then we just kind of lose this like polarity of masculine, feminine in relationships or in in the way we interact. And it just really to me, that's one of the hardest things is setting those boundaries and stepping into that role because that's one of the big things about at the end of a breakthrough session is like, well, let's talk about the doubters because you're gonna go right back into an environment

Detox, Somatic Shifts, And Timeline

SPEAKER_00 38:20

that has a whole bunch of doubters on this, and how are you gonna deal with that? How are you gonna deal with the boss that's like, yeah, whatever, you didn't change in nothing, right? Like I actually am a different person now. And so there's this talking about the integration, I guess from a spiritual perspective, is kind of because you mentioned it like your reality, where like our unconscious mind is taking on like 20 million bits of information per second. It's like this wild, incoherent amount of information, but our our unconscious mind filters it through our values, our beliefs, our emotions, like all these experiences, and we have this we're aware of 126. We go from 20 million to 126, so we delete, you know, we distort, we generalize just about everything. So from a breakthrough session, Huna perspective, we're changing this 126 bits. We're just changing the perspective, and energetically we're collapsing that old reality and you're stepping into a new one. Yeah, and you're gonna be kind of in the void for a little while, and that's where you got to do the work, you gotta just keep going and going. Like, where do I want to go? And you gotta open that next reality and walk through it, and that's the work. And uh, you know, the integration is super important, super important.

Venessa 39:30

And that liminal space that you're describing is what's so hard for us to sit in. It's like I either want to be in the past or the future, but not right here.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Right. And you know, you look at Dr. Jones Spenza's work, it's like that's what they're doing. You're going into the quantum and collapsing everything and creating something new, right? Right. So this is the process. It's from a HUNA perspective, the we call it the fifth element, we call it Kave. It's a source, but it's that quantum realm of infinite possibilities of all that is. Like every tradition talks about that, right? We just we just call it the fifth element. Yeah, it just is part of, you know. Um, so we're just stepping into that fifth element and asking source for a new reality at the end of the day.

Venessa 40:15

I like that. A couple more questions that came up while we were talking. You mentioned plant medicine. Do you work with plant medicine on your practice, or is that outside of your realm? And I also had a question about sacred plants and ceremonies.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Yeah.

Venessa 40:29

Um, it was that if that was something that you incorporated.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yeah. When I work in person, I do work with hape, which is a tobacco snuff. Um, and then I also work with Sananga as well, which is like uh eye drops, uh, which is basically like pouring jalapenos in your eyes. It's oh yeah, it's pretty gnarly, it's pretty gnarly.

Venessa 40:47

Okay, I've never heard of either. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Um, yeah. So these are both like Amazonian medicines, right? They come from that space. And I've done a fair amount of retreat work down in Mexico with first responders

Integration: Goals, Hypnosis, Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 41:00

and um, you know, ayahuasca and all those things. Like I've done that work and there's places for that. I think with severe PTSD, especially like, oh, what do you call it? You know, traumatic brain injuries and stuff like that, or really severe depression, like that, those plant medicines might be really important because the like the brain is a transducer, is the best way I can explain it, like a TV antenna of consciousness. And so if it's damaged, like you may not be able to connect your unconscious mind very well. That's just not gonna work. So we need to heal the brain first and then maybe do something. And so that's where I've seen the combinations of this work actually do some amazing things for PTSD and like helicopter survivors and people that have gone through a lot, you know. Yes, I've worked in that space, and and I think there's most importantly is that there's a lot of YouTube shamans, and so if there's not a lineage, then I would stay away. Okay, it's very dangerous, very dangerous work if it's not done very properly with, for instance, in our retreats, we might spend like three hours with intention and prayer before we even like go into something.

Venessa 42:06

Okay, so before you start an actual ceremony with any kind of plant medicine.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Exactly. It's there's a lot, a lot that goes into it. So yeah, hope they that's a good idea.

Venessa 42:15

So no, yes, listeners, make sure you do your research, find somebody who is in the lineage and not just has a YouTube channel that promises you a wild trip because that may not be what you want to sign up for.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Right.

Venessa 42:29

The type of people that come and find you or the clientele you find yourself working with, do people usually come to you because they have an issue that isn't being resolved by other means? Have you ever had someone come to you and be like, I just want to see what's on the other side for me? I don't necessarily have an issue, not really sure where to start. Would you be able to work with somebody like that as well?

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Yeah. Oh, that's a beautiful question. For uh for some reason, people with a lot of trauma have come to me. Like, I've done all these things. Because you're a healer, yes, right, right. It's like I've done all of these things, and I have to be careful how I say this. I would say, like, a lot of people say, I've been in therapy for like 10 years, and like I feel worse, right? It's like, okay, so yeah, maybe I can help you. Let's let's check it out, right? Let's let's um talk about it. So, and then as let's see, I don't know why. Women with sexual trauma has could they they just show up all the time. Like, okay, like I've done a lot of work with that, a lot of work, uh, very powerful, a lot of resolution mentally, physically, emotionally, all of it. And then for people that are like, I just want to open my gifts, you know. I think I have a really great story about this. So, and it's not quite that person. It's like I just want to see, it's more this person who's struggling with like, I'm just hearing voices in that like everybody says I'm schizophrenic and I'm crazy. And most of the time, I'd be like, I don't work with schizophrenia, that's just a whole that's a whole physical. Level, I'm not gonna go there. But she, this person was like, but this person sometimes schizophrenic, and then this other doctor said I wasn't, and so I'm just confused, but I'm like hearing these voices, and so I was like, Let me read your energy. I was like, Oh, you're a medium, duh. Okay, well, I'm four person. I know because they thought, like, I'm just a crazy person. And so it took a lot of like it took a breakthrough session and other traditions and some other like medicine experiences for her to break through to understand those voices were actually, yeah, they were dead people, and like all of the time, they're like narrating her life. But why I bring this up is because she had to become a clear channel to harmonize that gift and to step into it. Where I think the people that are like, yeah, I just kind of want to check it out. This isn't light work, like, not as in this isn't like um obviously it's it's light as an energy work, but it's like not it's not lighthearted, man. This is work. This is like if anybody's gone through a psychedelic experience that you get put through the meat grinder for eight hours, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, so it's not on that level, but like this is strong work. I don't really work with Taurus.

Venessa 45:14

That's like shadow work in a way. Would you define it as sad, or or is that too?

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Um, no, that makes sense, you know, because we're working with, you know, traditionally in a in a breakthrough session, we're gonna release anger, sadness, fear, hurt, guilt, and we're gonna get to the root

Liminal Space And The Fifth Element

SPEAKER_00 45:30

cause. So a lot of time that's yeah, it's deeper in the ancestral bloodlines or in your ancestry or genealogical or past life, and that doesn't always show up. Sometimes it's in the womb, which that's super common, like during birth trauma, super common. So it is shadow work, and that we're gonna go into like, yeah, we're going into like the really heavy stuff that you've never even seen before. Because that's where the problem is. That's where the problem is. Like, you haven't solved the problem because you haven't been able to get there yet. That's why you've come to me, because nobody can help you see your problem, which means we do have to go, yeah, it's deep. We gotta go deep, gotta go deep. And that's the power of it, though.

Venessa 46:10

And that's where the lasting change comes on the other side.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Yeah.

Venessa 46:13

Wow. So, in closing, I can't believe it's already been almost an hour. This second season for the listeners is all about lifestyle optimization, walking that authentic path, going outside of set channels to expand awareness, whether that's healing, of any of the modalities, right? Any of these pillars, mind, body, and spirit. So if you were to choose one key takeaway from our discussion today that you would recommend to the listeners, like this is the key point, this is the starting ground. What would it be and why?

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Yeah, I would say, well, there's a can I say a couple?

Venessa 46:53

Of course, please. This is your problem.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Yeah, I think the first point I always invite people to come to is this idea that there's this cause and effect in the universe, right? Even from a physics perspective, we've heard of this. And yet everything in our mind has a cause and effect. And so we kind of need to come to the other side of the equation. We're like, wait a minute, I think I'm causing this problem. I think I'm creating this problem. And when we come back to cause, that's the number one thing. We got to be a cause of like, wow, I created the way I reacted to that. I did create this baggage when I was one year old. I don't know why, but I created the baggage. Like, and so sometimes for people that have been through a lot of trauma, like this is a hard thing to get to. And so it's, I think it is the foundational most important piece is I'm causing the problem. I I'm causing the interpretation of it. And the second that's really important is that you're in charge of your mind, therefore, your reality. That's it. You know, we come back to cause. I'm in charge of my mind, therefore, my results, my reality, my physiology. Like I'm in charge of this. Uh, and that it's all, yeah, here we go. It's all in my mind, right? All of it. Everything is mental. You know, from a hermetic persp perspective, everything is mental. So on top of all of that, go out and get some sun, get the elements like water, fire, earth, air, you know, all those things. Those, I think those three things will absolutely change your life.

Plant Medicines, Safety, And Lineage

Venessa 48:20

No, I love that there's not space for a victim mentality. You have the power and it's all in here.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Yeah. And uh and you know, it all comes from it's gonna sound silly in some ways, but for me, my father always told me, you can do anything you put your mind to. And I was like, wow, that really shaped my life. Like, thanks. Thank you for that one. Because that is one of the beliefs that I do carry still. That, and yeah, you can do anything you put your mind to. It's just a matter of really buckling down, focusing, and taking action in a lot of ways.

Venessa 48:54

Yeah, doing the work. Oh, great. Thomas, where can people find out more about you and your services?

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Yeah, absolutely. So Instagram and my website, Facebook. Facebook is Thomas Worm. My my website. We're actually going through like a mind change or uh a name change a little bit. It's just my Mountain Mind Mastery. If you go to Mountain Mind Tricks, it will take you there as well. So um, that's Instagram, the website. I do have some books on Amazon, so you can just um search up Thomas Worm. So yeah.

Venessa 49:24

Oh, we didn't even get a chat about your books.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Yeah, there's some books there. So okay. Uh yeah, you know, I I run a weekly men's group if people are interested in that. And uh there's definitely some retreats, and there's a lot of stuff coming through. And obviously, you know, the the one-on-one breakthrough sessions are just so powerful, so powerful for folks.

Venessa 49:44

So that seems like a really good place to start. And websites the best place to go find more for that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Okay, yep, yep.

Venessa 49:51

Great. Well, I will make sure that I include all of those links in the show notes. Thank you so incredibly much for your time and your energy and all of the wisdom that you shared today. This has been such a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Thank you for thank you so much for having me, and it's it's been a blessing. Thank you.

Venessa 50:10

I love listener feedback, an always welcome question. You can reach me at Vanessa at squatsandseances.com or on social media at squats and seances. I am on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn, and YouTube. Please subscribe to the show on your favorite listening or viewing platform of choice, and leave me a review. Lastly, check out my website at squats and seances dot com and sign up for my newsletter. Until the next time, may you continue to live well, embrace authenticity, question everything, and of course, stay gritty.